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	<title>Comments for Author of Confusion</title>
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	<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Musings of a kiwi atheist</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:05:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Genesis 1:  What does it actually say? by berenike</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/genesis-1-what-does-it-actually-say/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>berenike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=138#comment-628</guid>
		<description>Late, but still:

Try reading Augustine&#039;s &quot;De Genesi ad Litteram&quot; (the incomplete literal commentary on Genesis) - there&#039;re a couple of English editions in print. Might even be on Googlebooks, or on something like ccel.org. Of course, from the point of view of astronomy etc Augustine is working with superseded models,  but his knowledge of ancient Near Eastern literature was probably not much wider than yours, nor did he know Hebrew or much Greek. He comes up with all the same sort of questions you have :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Late, but still:</p>
<p>Try reading Augustine&#8217;s &#8220;De Genesi ad Litteram&#8221; (the incomplete literal commentary on Genesis) &#8211; there&#8217;re a couple of English editions in print. Might even be on Googlebooks, or on something like ccel.org. Of course, from the point of view of astronomy etc Augustine is working with superseded models,  but his knowledge of ancient Near Eastern literature was probably not much wider than yours, nor did he know Hebrew or much Greek. He comes up with all the same sort of questions you have <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Travelling by Damian</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/travelling/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>Damian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-627</guid>
		<description>So they do! Thanks for that; I&#039;m going to pop along methinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So they do! Thanks for that; I&#8217;m going to pop along methinks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Travelling by Ian</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/travelling/#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-626</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a shame, I was hoping to catch up!  Your timing is terrible ;)

Incidentally NZ Skeptics are slowly getting skeptics in the pub things going - Canterbury has held a few this year and there is one coming in Auckland on the 10th September apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a shame, I was hoping to catch up!  Your timing is terrible <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Incidentally NZ Skeptics are slowly getting skeptics in the pub things going &#8211; Canterbury has held a few this year and there is one coming in Auckland on the 10th September apparently.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Travelling by Damian</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/travelling/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>Damian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-625</guid>
		<description>Gahh! I&#039;m going to be out of the country from the 2nd-8th. Bad timing. If your days shift slightly (i.e. the 1st or something) please let me know. I&#039;ve been wanting to do a &quot;skeptics in the pub&quot; kind of thing for ages but it seems that we&#039;re quite spread out here in Kiwiland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gahh! I&#8217;m going to be out of the country from the 2nd-8th. Bad timing. If your days shift slightly (i.e. the 1st or something) please let me know. I&#8217;ve been wanting to do a &#8220;skeptics in the pub&#8221; kind of thing for ages but it seems that we&#8217;re quite spread out here in Kiwiland.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Travelling by Ian</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/travelling/#comment-624</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-624</guid>
		<description>Cheers Dale, just flicked you an email.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers Dale, just flicked you an email.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Travelling by Dale Campbell</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/travelling/#comment-623</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-623</guid>
		<description>you got my number and email - let me know when you&#039;re in aucks and we can do a coffee or something ;)  cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you got my number and email &#8211; let me know when you&#8217;re in aucks and we can do a coffee or something <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   cheers</p>
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		<title>Comment on William Lane Craig &amp; Bill Cooke Public Debate (Palmy) by Just in &#8211; the Palmy Debate &#124; MandM</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/william-lane-craig-bill-cooke-public-debate-palmy/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator>Just in &#8211; the Palmy Debate &#124; MandM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-618</guid>
		<description>[...] of Confusion wrote this review, reproduced in part [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Confusion wrote this review, reproduced in part [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on My Personal View of Science by Ian</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/07/06/my-personal-view-of-science/#comment-612</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-612</guid>
		<description>I agree entirely that we have a fight on our hands to maintain science and that there are dishonest people out there trying to undermine science.  I also understand the importance of getting this right and the need for clarity.  However I see the solution differently from you I think.  

If I say pseudoscience is &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; science then I immediately open up the opportunity for them to say that since it isn&#039;t science then the scientific method doesn&#039;t apply and they can make whatever claims they like and I can&#039;t touch them.  If I say they are doing &lt;em&gt;bad&lt;/em&gt; science then I can demonstrate their failings and effectively make them do it properly - there is no escape.  If they are included then they have to play by the rules.  If they are excluded they can make up their own rules.

The same applies to creationism and ID - I frequently hear people saying that science doesn&#039;t deal with god or morals or whatever - I say science &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; apply, it must apply.  I want to be able to rigorously demonstrate why their explanations are poor matches to the observations rather than letting them falsely exclude science from the discourse.  

Of course much pseudoscience is not science regardless of which definition we take.  Coming up with a random idea and then touting that as truth regardless of observation is not science whichever way you define it and can easily be shown to be a poor way of doing things.  Similarly distorting scientific findings to push forward an idea is not science either.

I want to encourage people to do better science by showing them where their attempt at science fails.  I would much rather recognise and improve someone&#039;s scientific skills than simply dismiss their ideas as not science and ignore them.  The end result for the idea is the same but the former may well produce a new scientist, while the latter may well produce an enemy of science.
 
I also worry about dogmatism in science.  There is a danger that the scientific method can become a dogmatic way of life rather than simply a well established method with the possibility of improvement (however small).  From a tactical point of view there is also the danger that dismissing so-called non-science out of hand can lead to false claims of scientific dogmatism (and it often does).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree entirely that we have a fight on our hands to maintain science and that there are dishonest people out there trying to undermine science.  I also understand the importance of getting this right and the need for clarity.  However I see the solution differently from you I think.  </p>
<p>If I say pseudoscience is <em>not</em> science then I immediately open up the opportunity for them to say that since it isn&#8217;t science then the scientific method doesn&#8217;t apply and they can make whatever claims they like and I can&#8217;t touch them.  If I say they are doing <em>bad</em> science then I can demonstrate their failings and effectively make them do it properly &#8211; there is no escape.  If they are included then they have to play by the rules.  If they are excluded they can make up their own rules.</p>
<p>The same applies to creationism and ID &#8211; I frequently hear people saying that science doesn&#8217;t deal with god or morals or whatever &#8211; I say science <em>does</em> apply, it must apply.  I want to be able to rigorously demonstrate why their explanations are poor matches to the observations rather than letting them falsely exclude science from the discourse.  </p>
<p>Of course much pseudoscience is not science regardless of which definition we take.  Coming up with a random idea and then touting that as truth regardless of observation is not science whichever way you define it and can easily be shown to be a poor way of doing things.  Similarly distorting scientific findings to push forward an idea is not science either.</p>
<p>I want to encourage people to do better science by showing them where their attempt at science fails.  I would much rather recognise and improve someone&#8217;s scientific skills than simply dismiss their ideas as not science and ignore them.  The end result for the idea is the same but the former may well produce a new scientist, while the latter may well produce an enemy of science.</p>
<p>I also worry about dogmatism in science.  There is a danger that the scientific method can become a dogmatic way of life rather than simply a well established method with the possibility of improvement (however small).  From a tactical point of view there is also the danger that dismissing so-called non-science out of hand can lead to false claims of scientific dogmatism (and it often does).</p>
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		<title>Comment on My Personal View of Science by Wonderist</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/07/06/my-personal-view-of-science/#comment-611</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonderist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-611</guid>
		<description>I think your broad definition of science leaves a gaping hole that creationists, woo woo practitioners, and other charlatans would love to drive their trucks through.

Science today is under threat in the arena of public opinion. Whether it&#039;s intelligent design, homeopathy, global warming denialism, or just postmodern solipsism, there are real people who really do want to undermine science.

I think we have a responsibility to state clearly where the boundaries are between science and non-science. Saying that psychics are practitioners of science, just not &#039;good&#039; science, is like throwing in the towel. We might as well just erase the word science out of the dictionary, since it will no longer have any distinct meaning. The quantum mystics and the Scientologists will rejoice ... and will immediately sign up for government funding. After all, it&#039;s all science, right?

If you were in the court room for the Kitzmiller v. Dover case, who&#039;s side would you be on? Would you be saying, &quot;Well, ID isn&#039;t really good science, but it *is* science, and so it&#039;s appropriate to teach it in a science classroom,&quot; or would you be saying, &quot;No, ID is not science.&quot;

I hope you see that I&#039;m not making a big deal out of this just to be contrarian. This issue is very important in a real-world sense. I don&#039;t think it would be helpful to muddy the waters by using such a broad definition of science such that children&#039;s make-believe technically counts as &#039;science&#039;, because it is matching observations with explanations, regardless of how useful those explanations are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your broad definition of science leaves a gaping hole that creationists, woo woo practitioners, and other charlatans would love to drive their trucks through.</p>
<p>Science today is under threat in the arena of public opinion. Whether it&#8217;s intelligent design, homeopathy, global warming denialism, or just postmodern solipsism, there are real people who really do want to undermine science.</p>
<p>I think we have a responsibility to state clearly where the boundaries are between science and non-science. Saying that psychics are practitioners of science, just not &#8216;good&#8217; science, is like throwing in the towel. We might as well just erase the word science out of the dictionary, since it will no longer have any distinct meaning. The quantum mystics and the Scientologists will rejoice &#8230; and will immediately sign up for government funding. After all, it&#8217;s all science, right?</p>
<p>If you were in the court room for the Kitzmiller v. Dover case, who&#8217;s side would you be on? Would you be saying, &#8220;Well, ID isn&#8217;t really good science, but it *is* science, and so it&#8217;s appropriate to teach it in a science classroom,&#8221; or would you be saying, &#8220;No, ID is not science.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope you see that I&#8217;m not making a big deal out of this just to be contrarian. This issue is very important in a real-world sense. I don&#8217;t think it would be helpful to muddy the waters by using such a broad definition of science such that children&#8217;s make-believe technically counts as &#8217;science&#8217;, because it is matching observations with explanations, regardless of how useful those explanations are.</p>
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		<title>Comment on My Personal View of Science by Ian</title>
		<link>http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/2009/07/06/my-personal-view-of-science/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-609</guid>
		<description>Fascinating comment Wonderist.  First off I agree entirely that in our current world pseudoscience, religion and the rest of it are not good science and that the lack of predictive ability is one of the main reasons why they are so poor.  Secondly I do not think it undermines the power, necessity or importance of prediction to consider it part of the scientific method rather than science itself.  In fact I think the power of the scientific method (including prediction) is what makes science so practically useful.  However I think science is a slightly more fundamental concept than the scientific method.  

To boil it down to semantics: when I look at pseudoscience I think &quot;they are doing science badly&quot; rather than &quot;they aren&#039;t doing science&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating comment Wonderist.  First off I agree entirely that in our current world pseudoscience, religion and the rest of it are not good science and that the lack of predictive ability is one of the main reasons why they are so poor.  Secondly I do not think it undermines the power, necessity or importance of prediction to consider it part of the scientific method rather than science itself.  In fact I think the power of the scientific method (including prediction) is what makes science so practically useful.  However I think science is a slightly more fundamental concept than the scientific method.  </p>
<p>To boil it down to semantics: when I look at pseudoscience I think &#8220;they are doing science badly&#8221; rather than &#8220;they aren&#8217;t doing science&#8221;.</p>
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